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Post by Richie3Jack on Apr 8, 2012 18:17:43 GMT -5
Given my recent putter fitting and now understanding how many variables are in play with face alignment, why would tour players not use an Edel??? The OEMs don't have a putrer fitting system. I'm beginning to agree with Richie about the tour players being behind (sometimes). They get the best shafts first. Scotty Cameron has a putter fitting system, but I think you have to go to Texas for it. I also question how many variables they can really change. However, if you are aimed perfectly at address with whatever putter, there's no real reason to change. Or you can do what Loren Roberts does...aim 2* left at address and time it perfectly at impact. However, most cannot do that, even PGA Tour pros. Everybody I knew that owned the Taylor Made R9 driver hit it *shorter* off the tee. Then Kenny Perry was actually in a commercial saying that he hit it a little shorter! (but he hit it 'better'). Many of the pros are good guys and intelligent, but are the golfing version of 'bimbos.' They are not out there trying to learn everything they can and get every single type of advantage they can possibly achieve. And with equipment they are often stuck with what the OEM's can give them. Sometimes the new stuff is really good, sometimes it sucks. Sometimes they are missing out. 3JACK
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Post by rohlio on Apr 8, 2012 18:54:58 GMT -5
Regarding the old Hogan Sure-Out, it had a lot of bounce, but the design was such that you can lay it out on the ground almost like a wedge that has no bounce. I believe the Alien wedge copied this design. On more vs. less bounce, I believe Mickelson said he uses more bounce, in one of those youtube vids of his teaching the pitch. I notice more bounce on the wedge gives you more bite, so that you're not too dependent on the life of the grooves than you are on the shape of the head. Is it possible you are mistaking Sole width for bounce? They are two different things and I can't tell anything about the bounce of that wedge from the angle of that picture. It certainly has a very wide sole, which would make it hard to dig and when opened very hard to stick in the sand. However without a side profile view of a wedge you can't get a feel for how much bounce a wedge has and where it is distributed. In fact you could have a very wide sole width like that wedge and have little or no bounce if the leading edge sits equal to or lower than the lowest point on that very wide sole.
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Post by iacas on Apr 8, 2012 19:18:36 GMT -5
Given my recent putter fitting and now understanding how many variables are in play with face alignment, why would tour players not use an Edel??? Equipment contracts. David will fit Tour players and they'll take their specs to PING or whatever and build the most similar putter they can.
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Post by cwdlaw223 on Apr 8, 2012 19:35:41 GMT -5
Good point Iacas! I'm just surprised at how even the score lines affect our vision. The detail in this system is incredible.
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Post by kamandi on Apr 9, 2012 6:55:33 GMT -5
I notice more bounce on the wedge gives you more bite, so that you're not too dependent on the life of the grooves than you are on the shape of the head. I don't think that "more bounce gives you more bite." More bounce may allow a golfer to deliver a steeper AoA or something, but I don't think the bounce itself has any effect on the "bite." I could definitely be wrong about this; I think more bounce accelerates the rebounding from the ground, so it might have an affect on the ball.
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Post by kamandi on Apr 9, 2012 7:18:12 GMT -5
Regarding the old Hogan Sure-Out, it had a lot of bounce, but the design was such that you can lay it out on the ground almost like a wedge that has no bounce. I believe the Alien wedge copied this design. On more vs. less bounce, I believe Mickelson said he uses more bounce, in one of those youtube vids of his teaching the pitch. I notice more bounce on the wedge gives you more bite, so that you're not too dependent on the life of the grooves than you are on the shape of the head. Is it possible you are mistaking Sole width for bounce? They are two different things and I can't tell anything about the bounce of that wedge from the angle of that picture. It certainly has a very wide sole, which would make it hard to dig and when opened very hard to stick in the sand. However without a side profile view of a wedge you can't get a feel for how much bounce a wedge has and where it is distributed. In fact you could have a very wide sole width like that wedge and have little or no bounce if the leading edge sits equal to or lower than the lowest point on that very wide sole. You're probably right, it's probably the width of the sole. I've read posts saying it has 14* of bounce, and others saying it has 6* of bounce, but plays like 14*. The sole is like a surfboard's fin ... from the bottom of the face, it starts of real thin (so that it can lay flat on a tight lie, even when you open it up), then instead of a sharp angled chunk, it's rounded, getting bigger as it goes backwards. I found this picture, but the cellophane kinda blurs out the curve ....
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Post by cwdlaw223 on Apr 9, 2012 8:17:56 GMT -5
The location of the bounce is crucial. Longer sole width can increase the effective bounce (as opposed to the static bounce). I believe most wedges are built with the bounce closer to the trailing edge. Edel has most of their bounce near the leading edge, which for me, is very, very helpful. I like to keep my hands ahead and drive the leading edge into the ground. If the bounce is near the trailing edge my leading edge digs into the ground and I hit fat shots on tight lies unless I hit it perfect.
Bounce is your friend if you can find a wedge that fits your swing style. I had the highest bounce that Scratch golf had to offer and I would still dig the wedge and I couldn't hit flop shots by laying the clubface flat on the ground. Not with the Edel wedge. I have about 4* more bounce and can lay that wedge flat on the ground.
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Post by iacas on Apr 9, 2012 8:59:14 GMT -5
I could definitely be wrong about this; I think more bounce accelerates the rebounding from the ground, so it might have an affect on the ball. Yeah, color me skeptical on that one. The ball's long gone.
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Post by iacas on Apr 9, 2012 20:27:46 GMT -5
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Post by kamandi on Apr 9, 2012 22:04:38 GMT -5
The location of the bounce is crucial. Longer sole width can increase the effective bounce (as opposed to the static bounce). I believe most wedges are built with the bounce closer to the trailing edge. Edel has most of their bounce near the leading edge, which for me, is very, very helpful. I like to keep my hands ahead and drive the leading edge into the ground. If the bounce is near the trailing edge my leading edge digs into the ground and I hit fat shots on tight lies unless I hit it perfect. Bounce is your friend if you can find a wedge that fits your swing style. I had the highest bounce that Scratch golf had to offer and I would still dig the wedge and I couldn't hit flop shots by laying the clubface flat on the ground. Not with the Edel wedge. I have about 4* more bounce and can lay that wedge flat on the ground. Sounds like you've found your wedge soul-mate.
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Post by kamandi on Apr 9, 2012 22:19:40 GMT -5
I could definitely be wrong about this; I think more bounce accelerates the rebounding from the ground, so it might have an affect on the ball. Yeah, color me skeptical on that one. The ball's long gone. This is the rebound effect I was talking about; Phil explains how the bounce gets the ball to pop up in a tight lie, at around the 40 second mark. I believe it adds spin; maybe it doesn't.
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Post by iacas on Apr 9, 2012 22:48:05 GMT -5
This is the rebound effect I was talking about; Phil explains how the bounce gets the ball to pop up in a tight lie, at around the 40 second mark. Feel ain't real. Phil also thinks he "hinges and holds" on that shot when he clearly doesn't, and he clearly lets the shaft pass his lead arm very quickly around/after impact.
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Post by kamandi on Apr 9, 2012 22:56:00 GMT -5
This is the rebound effect I was talking about; Phil explains how the bounce gets the ball to pop up in a tight lie, at around the 40 second mark. Feel ain't real. Phil also thinks he "hinges and holds" on that shot when he clearly doesn't, and he clearly lets the shaft pass his lead arm very quickly around/after impact. So are you saying that Phil Mickelson is wrong in believing that the bounce makes the ball pop-up?
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Post by cwdlaw223 on Apr 9, 2012 23:22:14 GMT -5
iacas -
Post a pic for everyone with the ball in front of your 60* wedge with the face pointed up at the sky! The leading edge will be low to the round and not raised up like most wedges.
What shaft did you get? The DG was too low for me. KBS for me.
You're now posting golf porn with those wedges!
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Post by iacas on Apr 10, 2012 7:03:03 GMT -5
Post a pic for everyone with the ball in front of your 60* wedge with the face pointed up at the sky! The leading edge will be low to the round and not raised up like most wedges. I'll try. Those are Mike's wedges you know. Mine arrive later today. What shaft did you get? The DG was too low for me. KBS for me. You're now posting golf porn with those wedges! KBS C Taper. Brought the flight down a titch. Pics later today or tomorrow.
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