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Post by gmbtempe on Feb 26, 2010 18:50:02 GMT -5
I don't think that stats are the be all end all either, but I do bring them up just to stay neutral here. I think having students relates because you need a "lab" to test theories on. You need multiple guinea pigs or "subjects" to test your theories of the swing on. I think having multiple years of doing this research is needed again, with "test subjects", i.e. Real people and real golfers other than yourself. Jeff has "called out" Brian's teachings alot lately, using this forum to do so, and I just want to know why he has these opinions and what his "qualifications" are to do so. Of course, I believe everyone should have an opinion and hell this isn't my site, but I wonder why I should stick around and read this stuff. I need HARD DATA. Well Jeff always provides the logic behind his statements, if hard data other than our own swing testing is needed then most of us could not post much on any subject. I know Jeff posted a lot on Brians site and many of the posts were deleted. I know Jeff is not afraid to post his thoughts to the source. Even when as you say he is calling out Brian he is providing his reasoning for all his statements and to me thats is refreshing when compared to many swing thoughts. From here on I will let Jeff speak for himself on the subject.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Feb 26, 2010 19:13:04 GMT -5
VJ You wrote-: " Of course, I believe everyone should have an opinion and hell this isn't my site, but I wonder why I should stick around and read this stuff. I need HARD DATA." You are not obliged to read my opinions. I actually think that my opinions are based on "hard data" - human anatomy and human biomechanics. I cannot think of another golf theorist/instructor who ties his golf instructional opinions so closely to "hard data". The right forearm takeaway is used by a number of PGA tour golfers and it is a solidly rational way to perform a backswing action. Here is another golfer who uses the right forearm takeaway - Dustin Johnson. www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXU_IC1qpdwThe usefulness of the right forearm takeaway is that it i) easily gets the clubshaft perfectly on-plane in the mid-backswing (butt end of the club points at the ball-target line) and ii) it easily gets the back of the FLW/hand to lie against the inclined plane in the mid-late backswing and iii) it easily allows the left arm flying wedge to remain intact during the mid-late backswing. They key biomechanical movements involved in the right forearm takeaway are - i) abduction of the right upper arm in the right shoulder socket; ii) external rotation of the right upper arm in the right shoulder socket; iii) increasing right elbow bending/folding as the backswing evolves; iv) right wrist bends backwards while remaining level (not cocking upwards). The left hand is carried by the right hand to the end-backswing position, and the only motions involving the straight left arm include i) internal rotation of the left upper arm and ii) pronation of the left forearm. You wrote-: "I think having students relates because you need a "lab" to test theories on. You need multiple guinea pigs or "subjects" to test your theories of the swing on. I think having multiple years of doing this research is needed again, with "test subjects", i.e. Real people and real golfers other than yourself". I agree! I have successfully taught my "right clap hand" maneuver (used to teach the right forearm takeaway) to dozens of golfers at my local golf practice facility, and it works like magic! I think that it's a biomechanically natural, and very easy/comfortable way of learning how to perform a right forearm takeaway. You are not obliged to agree with me. Jeff. p.s. I think that it's a waste of time trying to evaluate the efficacy of a PGA tour golfer's swing mechanics/biomechanics by looking at their final score. There is no causal connection between a golfers "quality" of swing mechanics/biomechanics and final score. Short game skills, putting skill, mental skills, and course management skills play a much greater role in determining a PGA tour golfer's scoring ability.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Feb 26, 2010 19:28:28 GMT -5
Teddy - you wrote-: "The problem with a lot of golfers is that they over-pronate the left arm early in the takeaway. By the top of the swing they may look like any other golfer, but I feel that the early pronation can lead to losing the feel of where the club-head sweet spot is which can affect impact."
I cannot understand the logic of your argument. If a golfer over-pronates the left forearm in the takeaway, then he will not end up looking like a good golfer (who doesn't over-pronate the left forearm) at the end-backswing position.
The "twistaway" is a biomechanically unnatural/uncomfortable band-aid maneuver that can be used for golfers who over-pronate their left forearm in the takeaway. However, there is a simpler solution - they merely need to learn how to perform a right forearm takeaway (like Stuart Appleby and Ben Hogan and John Erickson). John E (like Ben Hogan) has a superb, biomechanically natural backswing action that doesn't include a "twistaway" maneuver.
Jeff.
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Post by jd on Feb 26, 2010 19:32:32 GMT -5
I don't want to be accused of the hyperbole that slicefixer's fans indulged in calling his online thread the greatest golf "book" of all time, but to me, NSA 2 is the greatest golf video of all time. And the reason I say this is that it's the only thing that ever helped me learn how not to slice. Seriously. I was the cream puff, sissy slicer who could not even tee off with a driver because the ball went so far right and because the ball only went about 180 yards. Yes, at its worst, things were that bad. I tried it all: strengthening the grip, buying a closed-face driver, not swinging OTT, etc. Nothing worked.
I first bought NSA two summers ago when I first committed to playing more golf and learning the game, and at that time I was visiting so many web forums and looking in so many places that I never really focused just on the video because I was overwhelmed about who to trust with all the conflicting info. I committed this last summer, and it was a godsend for me. I never, and I mean never, saw a ball hook until that video (like most slicers I hit the occasional pull because my plane line was so bent to the left). And I never saw a ball go far until I incorporated concepts from the video.
The twistaway helped me avoid the things that slicers do, some of which you guys mentioned here, and all of which Brian mentions in the video--overrating the FLW, cocking the right wrist, bending the left wrist, opening the face at address, not lagging the sweetspot, and holding the face off at the end w/out a swivel.
But it wasn't just the twistaway. The section of the video on lagging the sweetspot, once I understood it, opened my eyes, and once I understood it, I stopped shanking it. The backswing pivot around the spine helped me not sway off the ball. The wedding-ring up finish helped me learn to swivel and helped my plane because if I was OTT I'd hit it left of Al Franken and it helped my chicken wing. There are other gems in there, such as hitting the box and swinging 'dem arms (as Brian says).
Basically, I learned more about the golf swing from that source than from any other I'd found up to that time.
Now here's the crazy thing. I don't use the twistaway now. And if I strengthen my grip, it actually does change my ball flight. So, as VJ referenced earlier, the twistaway taught me how to close the darn face on the way down, and like most things learned, once you do, you don't think about it. I use the twistaway for a few shots if I don't warm up and play or if I'm nervous (nothing like nerves to bring out the faults). But otherwise, I now know how to square the club in a more orthodox way.
I have comments about Jeff's comments because I think he's misinterpreting some of what's in the video, but I'll save that for my second post.
To me, I don't care what people think of Brian. He cured my slice, and it sounds corny, but I feel indebted to him because I was at a point where I wasn't sure if I'd continue playing if I couldn't get rid of the slice. So I feel like I owe him one. And I'm not one of those message board sycophants either. I hate that crap. When I say I think he's a great teacher and it's a great vid, it's authentic and it comes from the heart--NSA 2 literally was never slice again for this hacker.
An amusing endnote. When I decided to look into getting better at golf and researching the swing, the first thing I googled was "perfect golf swing." The first site I looked at was yours Jeff, and I learned a lot from it, so thank you! And I saw Brian's crossing guard drill in one of your papers, and that led me to him, which led me to NSA 2.0, which completes the circle of this post!
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johngrahamgolf
'88 Apex Redlines
3Jack Top 20 Short Game/Putting Instructor
Posts: 229
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Post by johngrahamgolf on Feb 26, 2010 19:36:29 GMT -5
Teddy - you wrote-: "The problem with a lot of golfers is that they over-pronate the left arm early in the takeaway. By the top of the swing they may look like any other golfer, but I feel that the early pronation can lead to losing the feel of where the club-head sweet spot is which can affect impact." I cannot understand the logic of your argument. If a golfer over-pronates the left forearm in the takeaway, then he will not end up looking like a good golfer (who doesn't over-pronate the left forearm) at the end-backswing position. The "twistaway" is a biomechanically unnatural/uncomfortable band-aid maneuver that can be used for golfers who over-pronate their left forearm in the takeaway. However, there is a simpler solution - they merely need to learn how to perform a right forearm takeaway (like Stuart Appleby and Ben Hogan and John Erickson). John E (like Ben Hogan) has a superb, biomechanically natural backswing action that doesn't include a "twistaway" maneuver. Jeff. Jeff, Just curious on your opinion. If we take the typical slicer and they only get one piece of information (either RFT or twistaway) which one do you believe would be happiest with the result they see assuming they perform the movement correctly? John
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Feb 26, 2010 19:48:04 GMT -5
John, You wrote-: " If we take the typical slicer and they only get one piece of information (either RFT or twistaway) which one do you believe would be happiest with the result they see assuming they perform the movement correctly?" I don't approach golf instruction in a band-aid manner. I wrote a review paper on the problem of slicing - perfectgolfswingreview.net/slice.htm -and I probably listed ~20 causes of a slice problem. My approach to "correcting" the slice problem is to i) first accurately identify all the cause(s) and ii) then selectively eliminate all of them via tailored golf instructional advice. Jeff.
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Post by jonnygrouville on Feb 26, 2010 19:58:37 GMT -5
I thought it was a quick and easy way for people that have very open clubfaces at the top of the backswing to attain something closer to a square clubface and understanding the relationship between the clubface and back of the left hand. I didn't think it was being proposed as a fundamental.
I am not sure how Brian teaches this, but as a concept from a video called 'Never Slice Again', I can see how this gets results. In a face to face lesson or series of lessons, there is probably more to it than this as I am not sure this kind of conscious action is the end goal. Keeping everything more neutral and on the straight and narrow like Appleby is obviously better, but as a short term feeling to get rid of a big right, I can see the benefit of performing a twistaway action.
Feels weird to me (but I have a more bowed or arched wrist) and I agree that it does not feel like a biomechanically sounds think to do, but I do not think many people that twistaway actually twist away.
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johngrahamgolf
'88 Apex Redlines
3Jack Top 20 Short Game/Putting Instructor
Posts: 229
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Post by johngrahamgolf on Feb 26, 2010 22:01:29 GMT -5
John, You wrote-: " If we take the typical slicer and they only get one piece of information (either RFT or twistaway) which one do you believe would be happiest with the result they see assuming they perform the movement correctly?" I don't approach golf instruction in a band-aid manner. I wrote a review paper on the problem of slicing - perfectgolfswingreview.net/slice.htm -and I probably listed ~20 causes of a slice problem. My approach to "correcting" the slice problem is to i) first accurately identify all the cause(s) and ii) then selectively eliminate all of them via tailored golf instructional advice. Jeff. Ok, thanks for your answer.
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Post by vjsinger on Feb 26, 2010 23:30:48 GMT -5
I'm sorry if this comes across the wrong way, but WTF is Biomechanically Natural mean? IMO, Dustin Johnson has alot of "maintaining the twist" in the downswing, as does sergio, as does Toms(Brian's student) etc.etc. Is this "maintaining the twist" Biomechanically "Natural" whatever that means?? Is Jamie Sadlowski's swing "Biomechanically Natural"? According to some he could be considered a flipper and doesn't maintain an "imperative" at impact (flat left wrist). Is swinging a club at 140 mph and squaring it up at the last nano second "Biomechanically Natural"? Help me understand what is "natural" in the very complex movement of the golf swing?? please.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Feb 27, 2010 1:07:33 GMT -5
VJ It's perfectly OK if you have a different way of understanding the idea/concept of what represents a "biomechanically natural movement". My idea of a biomechanically natural movement relates to natural body motions. Two examples. 1)If a person performs a backhanded frisbee throw action with the left hand, then the thrower will simply take the left hand back while internally rotating the left upper arm and pronating the left forearm in order to get the left hand far enough back in the backswing (while rotating the upper torso clockwise). The thrower wouldn't perform a twistaway action. 2) If a left-handed tennis player performs a backhanded tennis swing, he performs the same motion as a backhanded frisbee thrower. He will automatically get the clubface square at impact when he naturally reverses the left upper arm rotation and left forearm pronation that occurred in the backswing loading action. The clubface gets square automatically/naturally when the left arm returns to its neutral position at the moment of ball impact - left upper arm is neutral and it's neither internally rotated or externally rotated, and the left forearm is neutral and it's neither supinated or pronated. In the backstroke action, the clubface automatically/naturally gets open to the clubhead arc and it automatically/naturally closes in the forward stroke so that it automatically/naturally returns to square by impact. There is no need for a "twistaway" action to square the clubface even though the clubface opens a lot in the backstroke. The same natural biomechanical left arm/forearm motions apply to a golf swing. If a golfer has a slice problem (eg, due to an open clubface relative to the left hand or an incomplete release swivel action) then I believe that those faults should be remedied. A "twistaway" action can compensate for those faults to a certain degree, but it's a biomechanically unnatural/uncomfortable action that a golfer has to consciously impose on his swing. It doesn't happen naturally/automatically - it requires conscious thought and training/ingraining. I prefer a golf swing based on biomechanically natural/comfortable motions. I don't know what you mean when you state that Dustin is "maintaining a twist". He does have one major swing fault in the sense that he allows his left wrist to become arched at the end-backswing and he cannot get rid of that arched left wrist in the downswing. I don't regard an arched left wrist as equivalent to a "twistaway action" (which happens in the takeaway) although it is an undesirable swing action in the sense that it disrupts the left arm flying wedge. Dustin uses a right forearm takeaway - note how his right elbow stays on the elbow plane throughout the backswing (yellow line). He uses a standard takeaway swivel action that gets the back of his FLW parallel to the inclined plane in the mid-backswing where he is perfectly "on-plane" (red arrow - image 2). However, he develops an arched left wrist at the end of his backswing, which I suspect is due to a poor right forearm flying wedge alignment (his right wrist is too dorsiflexed and his right forearm is not correctly angled relative to the left arm flying wedge - his right forearm should be angled more forward so that it is parallel to the spine). His right forearm flying wedge therefore doesn't support his left arm flying wedge "correctly" at the end-backswing - note how his clubshaft droops downwards, instead of being parallel to the ground. That's a swing fault, and not a deliberate "twistaway" action used to correct a slice problem. Regarding Jamie, you claim that he is i) flipping; ii) using a very late release and iii) doesn't have a FLW at impact. I disagree about the release and flipping. Jamie has a very complex swing action because he uses a very strong left hand grip. He uses a very strong left hand grip (4 knuckles) which means that the back of his left hand is parallel to the ball-target line at address and his left forearm is pronated at address (rather than being neutral). That's why he gets back to that same situation at impact - his left forearm is still pronated to the same degree, and the back of his left wrist still faces the ball-target line - see next photo. He actually does have a FLW at impact, but it is parallel to the ball-target line - due to his very strong left hand grip. He is definitely not flipping at impact. Regarding the timing of his release action - he doesn't have a late release. He has a random release action because his club first starts to release in the second half of the mid-downswing. He maintains his lag angle in the first half of the mid-downswing (images 1 and 2) but starts to release (lose that lag angle) in the second half of the mid-downswing (images 3 and 4). Jeff.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Feb 27, 2010 1:45:35 GMT -5
jd
You wrote-: "but to me, NSA 2 is the greatest golf video of all time. And the reason I say this is that it's the only thing that ever helped me learn how not to slice."
Your logic escapes me - presumably because I think differently about swing faults and swing solutions. You are stating that the NSA swing video is the "greatest golf video of all time" because it helped your individual slice swing problem. I never think that way. I think that a swing video on "how to correct a slice problem" could be correctly labeled the "best" swing video if it is better than its competitors in "correcting a slice problem" in the most efficient manner. My definition of "efficiency" includes two major characteristics - i) biomechanically comfortable/natural movements and ii) targeted solutions that are causally related to the individual's particular slice-causing fault. A solution involving a "twistaway" maneuver doesn't meet those two conditions.
It is very instructive to learn that you no longer have a slice problem - despite the fact that you no longer use a twistaway maneuver in your backswing action. I presume that you have finally corrected the swing faults that actually caused your slice problem, and that you no longer need a "band-aid" approach.
Jeff
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Post by TeddyIrons on Feb 27, 2010 7:25:31 GMT -5
Teddy - you wrote-: "The problem with a lot of golfers is that they over-pronate the left arm early in the takeaway. By the top of the swing they may look like any other golfer, but I feel that the early pronation can lead to losing the feel of where the club-head sweet spot is which can affect impact." I cannot understand the logic of your argument. If a golfer over-pronates the left forearm in the takeaway, then he will not end up looking like a good golfer (who doesn't over-pronate the left forearm) at the end-backswing position. I suffer very much from over pronation of the left arm early in the takeaway - I fight this problem a lot. I believe the cause is an over active left fore-arm. Twistaway, while being a band aid, helps me fight this problem. Often my top of the backswing position looks fine, despite my early pronation. However, I believe over-pronation early in the backswing causes the golfer to lose the feel of the club-head sweet spot. There is no biomechanical reason for this, it's a question of feel. The "twistaway" is a biomechanically unnatural/uncomfortable band-aid maneuver that can be used for golfers who over-pronate their left forearm in the takeaway. However, there is a simpler solution - they merely need to learn how to perform a right forearm takeaway (like Stuart Appleby and Ben Hogan and John Erickson). John E (like Ben Hogan) has a superb, biomechanically natural backswing action that doesn't include a "twistaway" maneuver. Jeff. I never found twistaway uncomfortable - probably because my twistaway ended up looking like a normal takeaway. I'm not sure John E uses RFT - has he ever stated this? I'm not convinced you can see if RFT is being used just from video. I've experimented with RFT and have found if I use it over time I tend to end up with a restricted pivot. Similarly, if I use twistaway for a long time I end up with over-doing it and coming down with a closed club face. My preference is a one-piece takeaway. I think every golfer chooses their takeaway method based on what suits their habits and swing requirements.
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Post by starretj on Feb 27, 2010 9:31:42 GMT -5
Jeff wrote, I don't know what you mean when you state that Dustin is "maintaining a twist". He does have one major swing fault in the sense that he allows his left wrist to become arched at the end-backswing and he cannot get rid of that arched left wrist in the downswing. I don't regard an arched left wrist as equivalent to a "twistaway action" (which happens in the takeaway) although it is an undesirable swing action in the sense that it disrupts the left arm flying wedge. "
Jeff, I could be wrong since it has been a couple of years since I watched Brian's video, but I believe that Dustin is performing the "twistaway" move. Brian allows for variations on when in the swing it is applied.
A few thoughts and questions from this thread and several like it. Jeff, I understand that you try and get everybody to swing 'perfectly". If Homer Kelley thought that was correct, why did he catalogue so many different components and their variations? My thoughts are that if you really want to become a great teacher then you need to understand how "twistaway" and/or an arched wrist effects the other componenets and what variations you would need to have for a "twistaway" to work. Jeff, you have used an example of a golfer that is good enough to win a PGA Tour event as an example of a swing fault that you would fix. I would contend that your fix would have a high probability of sending him off of the Tour and he would never be heard from again. My belief is that you need to get rid of the thought process of "faults" in a swing and think of them as variations. When you become a good enough theorist and teacher to be able to work with golfers and know which variations they need to keep and which ones need to be changed and how to work with these variations to make them effective golfers, then you will have done something very worthwhile and something that very few teachers have ever been able to achieve. My opinion only, but this is where most teachers fail miserably.
Jimmy S.
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Post by vjsinger on Feb 27, 2010 10:01:40 GMT -5
VJ It's perfectly OK if you have a different way of understanding the idea/concept of what represents a "biomechanically natural movement". My idea of a biomechanically natural movement relates to natural body motions. Two examples. 1)If a person performs a backhanded frisbee throw action with the left hand, then the thrower will simply take the left hand back while internally rotating the left upper arm and pronating the left forearm in order to get the left hand far enough back in the backswing (while rotating the upper torso clockwise). The thrower wouldn't perform a twistaway action. 2) If a left-handed tennis player performs a backhanded tennis swing, he performs the same motion as a backhanded frisbee thrower. He will automatically get the clubface square at impact when he naturally reverses the left upper arm rotation and left forearm pronation that occurred in the backswing loading action. The clubface gets square automatically/naturally when the left arm returns to its neutral position at the moment of ball impact - left upper arm is neutral and it's neither internally rotated or externally rotated, and the left forearm is neutral and it's neither supinated or pronated. In the backstroke action, the clubface automatically/naturally gets open to the clubhead arc and it automatically/naturally closes in the forward stroke so that it automatically/naturally returns to square by impact. There is no need for a "twistaway" action to square the clubface even though the clubface opens a lot in the backstroke. The same natural biomechanical left arm/forearm motions apply to a golf swing. If a golfer has a slice problem (eg, due to an open clubface relative to the left hand or an incomplete release swivel action) then I believe that those faults should be remedied. A "twistaway" action can compensate for those faults to a certain degree, but it's a biomechanically unnatural/uncomfortable action that a golfer has to consciously impose on his swing. It doesn't happen naturally/automatically - it requires conscious thought and training/ingraining. I prefer a golf swing based on biomechanically natural/comfortable motions. I don't know what you mean when you state that Dustin is "maintaining a twist". He does have one major swing fault in the sense that he allows his left wrist to become arched at the end-backswing and he cannot get rid of that arched left wrist in the downswing. I don't regard an arched left wrist as equivalent to a "twistaway action" (which happens in the takeaway) although it is an undesirable swing action in the sense that it disrupts the left arm flying wedge. Dustin uses a right forearm takeaway - note how his right elbow stays on the elbow plane throughout the backswing (yellow line). He uses a standard takeaway swivel action that gets the back of his FLW parallel to the inclined plane in the mid-backswing where he is perfectly "on-plane" (red arrow - image 2). However, he develops an arched left wrist at the end of his backswing, which I suspect is due to a poor right forearm flying wedge alignment (his right wrist is too dorsiflexed and his right forearm is not correctly angled relative to the left arm flying wedge - his right forearm should be angled more forward so that it is parallel to the spine). His right forearm flying wedge therefore doesn't support his left arm flying wedge "correctly" at the end-backswing - note how his clubshaft droops downwards, instead of being parallel to the ground. That's a swing fault, and not a deliberate "twistaway" action used to correct a slice problem. Regarding Jamie, you claim that he is i) flipping; ii) using a very late release and iii) doesn't have a FLW at impact. I disagree about the release and flipping. Jamie has a very complex swing action because he uses a very strong left hand grip. He uses a very strong left hand grip (4 knuckles) which means that the back of his left hand is parallel to the ball-target line at address and his left forearm is pronated at address (rather than being neutral). That's why he gets back to that same situation at impact - his left forearm is still pronated to the same degree, and the back of his left wrist still faces the ball-target line - see next photo. He actually does have a FLW at impact, but it is parallel to the ball-target line - due to his very strong left hand grip. He is definitely not flipping at impact. Regarding the timing of his release action - he doesn't have a late release. He has a random release action because his club first starts to release in the second half of the mid-downswing. He maintains his lag angle in the first half of the mid-downswing (images 1 and 2) but starts to release (lose that lag angle) in the second half of the mid-downswing (images 3 and 4). Jeff. I maintain nothing is "automatic", or "natural" as you describe it to EVERYONE in any athletic movement pattern. I have taught Little League Baseball for years, and EVERY YEAR I get one or two kids that don't know how to throw the ball "naturally" or "automatically" as you describe it. These kids MUST be taught how to throw the ball effectively and usually it isn't "pretty" or Biomechanically "natural", because they simply are unable to perform it "perfectly". As for the "twistaway" concept, It isn't uncomfortable for me, my wife and three of my good friends and most importantly it is effective in teaching all of us how to square the club up and learn a swivel action POST impact. IMO, the "twistaway" is a brilliant concept and for me worked to get rid of my slice within 2 swings. I think you still believe that it only should be associated with the Backswing/Takeaway, but I think you are missing the point and/or do not understand the material. I think the concept allows the golfer to train and understand how to get to impact with good alignments and an understanding of how a SLICER needs to train his stroke movement patterns to get rid of the slice. Jimmy hit it right on the head I believe on his comments about Dustin Johnson's swing and I agree with what he said there 100%. Also, I HAVE NEVER said Sadlowski is a flipper, but to some that study the TGM exclusively they may put him in that category on some of his swings. I never said anything about his release. please don't make up quotes. please read my posts. I also again echo what Jimmy has said about the what you categorize as swing faults. I don't see a "swing fault" in DJ's swing only "compensations". Every golfer has compensations in their swing, no one has a perfect swing and I think the golf swing is best described as a constant recovery of these compensations due to the human condition.
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Post by imperfectgolfer on Feb 27, 2010 11:15:51 GMT -5
Teddy,
You wrote-: "I suffer very much from over pronation of the left arm early in the takeaway - I fight this problem a lot. I believe the cause is an over active left fore-arm."
I agree that over-pronation is due to excessive left forearm clockwise rotation in the early backswing. I also agree that a "twistaway" maneuver in the takeaway resists/impedes this over-rotation movement. However, I think that the problem of over-rotation of the left forerarm is automatically/naturally avoided in a right forearm takeaway (without any need for a twistaway maneuver).
You wrote-: "I've experimented with RFT and have found if I use it over time I tend to end up with a restricted pivot."
I don't understand why you have that problem of a restricted pivot because the right forearm takeaway only involves the right upper limb, and the pivot action occurs independently. I cannot understand why movements of your right upper limb should adversely affect your pivot motion.
You wrote-: "Similarly, if I use twistaway for a long time I end up with over-doing it and coming down with a closed club face."
I am not surprised. That's another reason why I dislike the twistaway move - it artificially closes the clubface relative to the clubhead arc. As a slicer's swing improves, then he is faced with this "new" problem. I think that a slicer would be better off he "corrected" the true cause(s) of his slice problem.
You wrote-: "My preference is a one-piece takeaway. I think every golfer chooses their takeaway method based on what suits their habits and swing requirements."
I agree!
Jeff.
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