|
Post by gmbtempe on Mar 5, 2012 20:19:15 GMT -5
I will take a stab at it. Looks like your left arm is more vertical at p5 (always scared to use those abbreviations) and the right wrist looks doesn't looked so cockeyed, so the face of the club seems to be in better position. The arms look more inline or lined up at impact also. Looks good, don't know what it all means but I am interested in hearing more so I am bumping this. Yea, pretty good, but thats P6, or the delivery position in TGM. For me the more vertical the left arm is at P5 the more the right arm will be on plane, another check is the amount of gap between the arms at this point, the closer the left arm is the chest the better for me. When the right forearm is on plane at P6 the less uncocking one needs to get the club down to the ball. This position allways for maximum support of the club shaft via the #3 pressure point, this makes sense if you take a club and just do the two moves, one with a higher right forearm and one that is on plane. This also keeps the handle lower, and if you remember some of what Dan told us at his clinic it can play a part. So the mechanic to achieve this is release #1 faster, nothing new if you remember what Dan was trying to get me to do last year, the feel is very much like I stick my right arm into my body, like I am tracing a line on my toes. I think the extra wrist cock between the two photo's comes more from the two camera setups, one being closer than the other.
|
|
|
Post by gmbtempe on Mar 5, 2012 20:21:55 GMT -5
I would title this movie -- "GMB - Escape from the underplane" w Yea, I think I started thinking over so much to get out from under that the alignments got jacked up.
|
|
|
Post by secondary on Mar 6, 2012 22:08:05 GMT -5
I am trying my best to follow along here, but since you and I come at it from two way different ways I get a bit lost. I can't really get underplane, so that is the big difference. When you say "tracing a line on my toes" are you meaning your right elbow is doing the tracing? The whole package? Right wrist? Don't mean to thread jack it at all, I just learn a lot from this thread. Hopefully save me a few steps along the way.
|
|
|
Post by gmbtempe on Mar 7, 2012 0:32:03 GMT -5
I am trying my best to follow along here, but since you and I come at it from two way different ways I get a bit lost. I can't really get underplane, so that is the big difference. When you say "tracing a line on my toes" are you meaning your right elbow is doing the tracing? The whole package? Right wrist? Don't mean to thread jack it at all, I just learn a lot from this thread. Hopefully save me a few steps along the way. I will do a video. You and I have (or had) very much the opposite problem, you are very much on plane on the dtl position. Honestly you don't have plane issues, you have sequencing and pivot issues. I think if tracing as through my right index finger. You can see it pretty clearly on the picture on the left. What would happen if I just rotated on this path of my hands from this position, the club would go over the ball, but I am very dept at uncocking hard which drops the club down to the ball. This is a great way to have little control over low point, lose power, and get underplane. Now the one the right is better, but not perfect, from here I rotate, club uncocks later, its fully supported by PP#3 so I can drive through the shot. Honestly this has been a long term problem, same stuff Dan C had me working on, just going about it another way. Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by teeace on Mar 7, 2012 1:37:06 GMT -5
3jack You wrote-: "the square/closed shoulders at impact gets you closing the clubface a little early." Could you please explain your proposed causal association - between a square (or slightly closed) shoulder at impact and early closing of the clubface through impact? I cannot understand the biomechanical factors that would predispose to an early closing of the clubface - if the shoulders are square (or slightly closed) at impact, rather than slightly open at impact. Jeff. Square or closed shoulders are marking that one has big deceleration in inner circle (hips and shoulders) and because of inertia the club face passes the hands early and by that it tends to rise and close via geometry.
|
|
|
Post by secondary on Mar 7, 2012 18:39:56 GMT -5
Ok, I follow that a bit better Greg. Thanks for the red lines, don't know why I didn't see that before. Look forward to the video. Pivot and sequencing issues is an understatment. I got a OrangeWhip for Xmas and I am STILL failing miserably.
|
|
|
Post by gmbtempe on Mar 9, 2012 21:17:22 GMT -5
Ok, I follow that a bit better Greg. Thanks for the red lines, don't know why I didn't see that before. Look forward to the video. Pivot and sequencing issues is an understatment. I got a OrangeWhip for Xmas and I am STILL failing miserably. Hope this explains it better. Whenever I would work more shoulders around and not as steep on the downswing I would often shank it. Now I know why, coming in higher the further I got down the plan the more I had to uncock my left wrist, at best I would heel it but often times it was off the hosel. Now with a better position at P6, even if its a tad under the plane I can rotate as hard as possible. Demonstration video, exaggerated, and you can see I feel like I can really push the club through impact with the #3 PP. Couple of my swings as I am working on the changes
|
|
|
Post by secondary on Mar 10, 2012 12:08:34 GMT -5
Hey thanks for taking the time to do that Greg. (almost 50 today, only 7 more inches of snow to go before I can see some grass in the yard!) Weather looks sweet. Can I ask a ? about feel instead of mechanics? In the second (dtl real swing) video do you "FEEL" like you are making a loop in your swing? Meaning, in order to get a steeper feeling in the bs, does it feel a bit looped from steep bs to flatter ds? I only ask because it makes sense to me in front of a mirror so far. Again, thanks for the explanation. Hey Denny!
|
|
|
Post by walther on Mar 10, 2012 13:07:49 GMT -5
In your demo video the trick for me is getting the club in the "new" p6 position ( at the 14 sec mark )
W
|
|
|
Post by gmbtempe on Mar 10, 2012 16:07:55 GMT -5
Hey thanks for taking the time to do that Greg. (almost 50 today, only 7 more inches of snow to go before I can see some grass in the yard!) Weather looks sweet. Can I ask a ? about feel instead of mechanics? In the second (dtl real swing) video do you "FEEL" like you are making a loop in your swing? Meaning, in order to get a steeper feeling in the bs, does it feel a bit looped from steep bs to flatter ds? I only ask because it makes sense to me in front of a mirror so far. Again, thanks for the explanation. Hey Denny! I don't mind loops, mine feels uber flat at the top, flatter than I would like, so I don't feel a downswing loop. This is where I think geometry and contact make a lot of sense. If you loop it and get to the right positions, make solid consistent contact, then hey something is right. I would say the best feeling loop shoulder occurs because the right elbow is working correctly, thats the true way to flatten out the golf swing IMO.
|
|
|
Post by secondary on Mar 10, 2012 17:48:57 GMT -5
Agree with you about the rt elbow, just going to take awhile to engrain on this end. Thanks for the updates and insight.
|
|
|
Post by gmbtempe on Apr 2, 2012 9:45:53 GMT -5
Had another great lesson this past Sunday with Aaron Olson at the Raven.
Got to meet Martin Chuck out there as well. Nice facility for practice at the Raven.
Really weird stuff that I can't get my head around. Worked on more sweetspot control not to get underplane, widened stance, sped shoulders up.
We did not work on SnT stuff, at least not the conventional stuff people associate with it but when you look at the pictures you would think it was.
What I can't grasp is it feels like I am making less of a turn yet on film it clearly looks like more turn. Also it feels like I set up with more weight left yet I was not sliding as much so at impact less of me was ahead of the ball.
Things are getting a little more clear to me. I am a slow learner ( :
|
|
|
Post by rohlio on Apr 2, 2012 10:26:20 GMT -5
What I can't grasp is it feels like I am making less of a turn yet on film it clearly looks like more turn. Different types of proprioceptors in your joints and skin feel different kinds of stimulus. A lot of the underlying ideas of S&T (imo) are designed to use biomechanics to free mechanical barriers to movement. So basically you get more turn with less effort/resistance. Because your various proprioceptors are used to a certain level of stimulation from these tensions and frictions when you remove them you get a lower signal level throughout the motion. Thusly more turn with less "feeling" of turning as your brain decodes those inputs.
|
|
|
Post by gmbtempe on Apr 4, 2012 0:05:23 GMT -5
Setup change
|
|
|
Post by mchepp on Apr 4, 2012 11:55:44 GMT -5
Any ball flight change? Maybe a bit higher flight?
|
|