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Post by vjsinger on Feb 16, 2010 15:09:15 GMT -5
Congratulations to you Greg. I wonder the same as cloran, What's the driver like, in particular, I wonder if distance is an issue with the pattern, or does it matter in Arizona ;D? I hate snow
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Post by gmbtempe on Feb 16, 2010 15:18:28 GMT -5
Congratulations to you Greg. I wonder the same as cloran, What's the driver like, in particular, I wonder if distance is an issue with the pattern? we going to find out tonight at PGA SS........I hit there once a week and my driver ranges between 250-260 carry and 270-290 roll out. When I used a SnT pattrern this went down to 235 carry and 255 or so. Clube speed went from 105-108 to 100 to 103. I can tell you I was hitting my 50 degree pitching wedge (standard is 47 in most sets) 140 yards yesterday and an 8 iron was going 160ish. 8 iron club speed was 85mph with ball speed around a 104, he had that VJ Singh radar thing. He flat out said you don't have power or clubhead speed issues.
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Post by cloran on Feb 16, 2010 15:24:05 GMT -5
Was Denny hitting the same club as you, and was it going just as far?
He makes every swing look like a 50 yrd pitch... just smooth and easy.
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Post by gmbtempe on Feb 16, 2010 15:43:04 GMT -5
Was Denny hitting the same club as you, and was it going just as far? He makes every swing look like a 50 yrd pitch... just smooth and easy. I am not sure what he hit, mine went a little farther if memory serves.
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Post by dodger on Feb 16, 2010 15:43:39 GMT -5
Greg, Is Denny your teacher? Do you really believe that the hip pivot action through impact is primarily responsible for the direction of the clubhead/divot through impact? Jeff. Greg, undoubtedly you will get plenty of posts telling you this pattern is biomechanically flawed, or against some other unfallible law. I hope you don't listen. Your swing looks great, especially at impact. Enjoy hearing about the lessons.
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Post by gmbtempe on Feb 17, 2010 10:48:12 GMT -5
I hit again last night at PGA SS. Something was wrong with the flightscope simulator on the distances, I could not hit an 8 iron more than 130 yards with any pattern, and a driver more than 240 (I avg about 260+ at least).
I dont like hitting on these mats much right now, I don't want to hit down on the ball for some reason and with the CP release its very much a down move, its certainly not a sweep release. I could just tell the swing was not as force full as yesterday.
I was hitting the ball with very little curve. I am getting the motion down, and the release is getting much easier. I don't know if I am re-cocking too early but now that I understand the move its much easier to do. If I don't release the pelvis the ball is pulled and if I do release its straight but it aint curving.
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joec
'88 Apex Redlines
Posts: 161
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Post by joec on Feb 17, 2010 12:26:07 GMT -5
i think it is ironic that this forum right now is following two method teachers. most well known teachers have been method teachers. then somebody slams their method as not being correct, or their ideas not being compatable. i have studied alot but i do not know many of the compatable components. in the alberts swing i think of ballard, lee, evershed, when he is explaining it. i never had much success with those methods. but, could it be because they had parts that were not compatable and alberts has put the pieces together to be compatible?
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Post by gmbtempe on Feb 17, 2010 12:39:22 GMT -5
i think it is ironic that this forum right now is following two method teachers. most well known teachers have been method teachers. then somebody slams their method as not being correct, or their ideas not being compatable. i have studied alot but i do not know many of the compatable components. in the alberts swing i think of ballard, lee, evershed, when he is explaining it. i never had much success with those methods. but, could it be because they had parts that were not compatable and alberts has put the pieces together to be compatible? I completely agree joec, method teachers have been given a bad rap. If a teacher has found the pieces of a golf swing that work they are going to make that the focal points of their teaching. This gets back to what I asked Manzella, if you are just fixing someone with a serious problem (band aid) you probably would not teach them an entire method. If you have a student then its likely there are certain positions you are going to try to get them into. Now if you get a great player come to you IMO you are not going to teach them a new method unless they are looking for that. What I usually say is I don't like a certain method (I like to use pattern) but that is much different then saying methods don't work.
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Post by dodger on Feb 17, 2010 15:31:40 GMT -5
I would not jump and call this teacher a method teacher. He has a Golfing Machine background with darome tossed in. Gmb is obviously looking for long term improvement, and had the book thrown at him. This instructor may not have done that to someone playing once a week looking to get rid of a slice. Perhaps for that person he incorporates a swivel or grip change, maybe some twistaway. I consider a method teacher someone that teaches the same thing to everyone. Harvey Penick never would let Crenshaw watch him teach Kite or vice versa. I bet if I went to Denny, which I will next time I am in Tucson, I bet he teaches me differently, he seems like a good teacher and that is what good teachers do.
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Post by gmbtempe on Feb 17, 2010 16:46:10 GMT -5
I would not jump and call this teacher a method teacher. He has a Golfing Machine background with darome tossed in. Gmb is obviously looking for long term improvement, and had the book thrown at him. This instructor may not have done that to someone playing once a week looking to get rid of a slice. Perhaps for that person he incorporates a swivel or grip change, maybe some twistaway. I consider a method teacher someone that teaches the same thing to everyone. Harvey Penick never would let Crenshaw watch him teach Kite or vice versa. I bet if I went to Denny, which I will next time I am in Tucson, I bet he teaches me differently, he seems like a good teacher and that is what good teachers do. There was some 80 year old guy hitting drivers before me, believe me Denny was not teaching him the same thing. Though I gather he thinks this is a pattern very viable to the masses. Getting back to my swing, another thing that seems really important is to not drop that right shoulder, I believe this is a crucial element of the CP release, it moves more parallel to the ground rather than vertical.
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joec
'88 Apex Redlines
Posts: 161
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Post by joec on Feb 17, 2010 19:52:30 GMT -5
gmb, are you using his practice aids?
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Post by gmbtempe on Feb 17, 2010 20:03:14 GMT -5
gmb, are you using his practice aids? Denny's? He has a bunch of training aids when he teaches, lots that are homemade, its like a mini Ben Doyle ;D I don't have anything as far as aids....other than a Pure Ball Striker.
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Post by Richie3Jack on Feb 18, 2010 1:35:46 GMT -5
One of the gigantic issues with most method teachers is that they haven't done anywhere near the research that a more 'hybrid' (think along the lines of S&T and Denny) teacher has done.
I'm not a fan of the S&T for a variety of reasons and I'm not really nutty about Denny's proposed takeaway. But the difference between S&T/Denny and say Hank Haney is that they are far more flexible.
If I didn't like Denny's backswing and told him that or if I tried it for awhile and just couldn't get it down, he would avoid teaching me that type of backswing and probably go with something more traditional. I don't like S&T's downward left shoulder turn on the backswing, and I think most of the S&T teachers would be a bit flexible with letting me have a flatter shoulder turn in the backswing.
When I worked with Ballard I kind of ran into the problem in that he wanted this big move off the ball and I just couldn't get it down and hated my balance with it. Had he been a bit more flexible with his teaching, I would've gotten more lessons from him and probably had better success. I still use his left side connection drill today.
Believe me, guys like Haney and Leadbetter and McLean really don't have much flexibility and really haven't done thorough research on the swing. This is the one thing that really irks me about Pelz, you start to find out that while he put a lot of manhours in his work, his research was WOEFULLY incomplete, shortsighted, flawed and downright naive. I think the same goes for Hardy's stuff (Haney is a Hardy disciple), Leadbetter and even McLean.
3JACK
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joec
'88 Apex Redlines
Posts: 161
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Post by joec on Feb 18, 2010 11:25:39 GMT -5
the je team is talking about four thirty. in the alberts swing i am feeling seven thirty. should that be the feel i am after?
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Post by Richie3Jack on Feb 18, 2010 12:11:31 GMT -5
the je team is talking about four thirty. in the alberts swing i am feeling seven thirty. should that be the feel i am after? Not sure where you would feel 7:30. 4:30 line is something you can see. I use masking tape and put it on the 4:30 line when I'm hitting balls on the mats on the range and from *my view* of hitting the ball I can see me on the 4:30 line. So the 4:30 line is real 'visual equivalent.' 3JACK
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