brad
Beat up Radials
Posts: 3
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Post by brad on Aug 13, 2013 0:53:24 GMT -5
I think he has an excellent golf swing. Flip roller??? Didn't this fellow shoot a 61 in a tourney?
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Post by chicagogolfcoach on Aug 13, 2013 7:53:59 GMT -5
We play golf...not golf swing.
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Post by jeffy on Aug 13, 2013 8:09:30 GMT -5
Sure it is "good", but not good enough to play golf for a living. Good luck finding a flip/roll like this on the PGA tour. They don't make it to that level.
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Post by Richie3Jack on Aug 13, 2013 10:06:18 GMT -5
I will be monitoring this thread closely and I would bet dollars to donuts that it will get out of hand I will end up locking it. I've already had to edit the post by 'brad' because he's started out with trying to antagonize Jeffy on a post that Jeffy made on Jeffy's forum. I don't have control over what Jeffy states on his forum and I don't care to. He's allowed to post whatever he wants on his forum. I can't same the same for how others have wanted me to monitor this forum.
However, I wanted to say my peace on this.
I measure a 'good swing' by how well the golfer strikes the ball.
Contrary to popular opinion, playing golf at a high level doesn't always entail 'good ballstriking.' Guys like Freddie Jacobson and Charles Howell III are good examples of this. They simply do not hit the ball well by Tour standards, but they are successful thru a great short game and putting. Meanwhile, somebody like Jim Furyk has a very unorthodox swing but does indeed consistently strike the ball well. Tom Lehman has always struck the ball well, but he couldn't make the Tour and was the U. of Minnesota golf coach because he couldn't putt and chip. Eventually he became a poor putter and chipper by Tour standards, but he was at least on a Tour level. Scraping the bottom of the barrel, but still on a Tour level and he ended up having a great career.
Charles Warren can't make the Tour because his putting and short game are atrocious. Somebody like Jacobson doesn't have a 'better swing' than Charles Warren, they have a 'better game.'
With that said, I don't know what Shields' metrics are like since he hasn't played on Tour. Again, that doesn't mean he doesn't have the ballstriking for it as I've shown the examples of players who couldn't get on Tour, but it was due to bad putting and short game play. As for swings, his reminds me a bit of Marc Leishman's:
3JACK
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Post by jeffy on Aug 13, 2013 10:52:05 GMT -5
"brad" is Ray, fyi. And "chipitin". And "shirley poitras" on Youtube.
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Post by jeffy on Aug 13, 2013 11:46:14 GMT -5
Which one plays the tour?? Hint: Marc Leishman is on the left...
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brad
Beat up Radials
Posts: 3
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Post by brad on Aug 13, 2013 12:00:21 GMT -5
Sure it is "good", but not good enough to play golf for a living. Good luck finding a flip/roll like this on the PGA tour. They don't make it to that level. I disagree. There is no flip/roll in that swing. That analysis and classification are made up from looking at 2d video's a very poor way to classify and form a solid analysis of a golf swing, it's 2013 there's better ways now, if you really know what you're doing.
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brad
Beat up Radials
Posts: 3
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Post by brad on Aug 13, 2013 12:03:27 GMT -5
Which one plays the tour?? Hint: Marc Leishman is on the left... Not a flip! Wrong idea of what a flip is or isn't. If you base a flip on that position all other classifications are wrong.
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Post by teeace on Aug 13, 2013 12:10:55 GMT -5
"brad" is Ray, fyi. And "chipitin". And "shirley poitras" on Youtube. Thanks Jeffy.
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Post by cwdlaw223 on Aug 13, 2013 12:28:22 GMT -5
Is this the graph of a "flipper"? If flipping is based upon the left wrist being in extension slightly past impact then this lead wrist graph of a pga tour player is a flipper (he's not a bronze medalist folks, gold or silver!). His lead wrist is flying into extension in less than 1/10 of a second before, at and after impact. Technically, his lead wrist is flexed at impact, but less than 1/10 of a second later it's in extension. You need more than one video camera to make a determination if someone is a truly flipper (as defined by lead wrist being in extension at impact). Nothing is "driving" or "holding" in the wrists of a tour player except on video.
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Post by teeace on Aug 13, 2013 12:38:39 GMT -5
Is this the graph of a "flipper"? If flipping is based upon the left wrist being in extension slightly past impact then this lead wrist graph of a pga tour player is a flipper (he's not a bronze medalist folks, gold or silver!) You need more than one video camera to make a determination if someone is a truly flipper (as defined by lead wrist being in extension). Nothing is "driving" or "holding" in the wrists of a tour player except on video. CW, can you explain that graph bit more. What are meanings of those terms and how they are defined?
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Post by jeffy on Aug 13, 2013 12:53:34 GMT -5
Is this the graph of a "flipper"? If flipping is based upon the left wrist being in extension slightly past impact then this lead wrist graph of a pga tour player is a flipper (he's not a bronze medalist folks, gold or silver!). His lead wrist is flying into extension in less than 1/10 of a second before, at and after impact. Technically, his lead wrist is flexed at impact, but less than 1/10 of a second later it's in extension. You need more than one video camera to make a determination if someone is a truly flipper (as defined by lead wrist being in extension at impact). Nothing is "driving" or "holding" in the wrists of a tour player except on video. Plenty of flippers on tour, they just don't also roll. It is caused by the right shoulder going into internal rotation earlier than those who don't flip, like Leishman.
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Post by cwdlaw223 on Aug 13, 2013 12:54:05 GMT -5
Tee -
The green line in this lead wrist graph is what counts in this post and deals with lead wrist flexion/extension in degrees. The black horizontal line = neutral (no flexion/extension). Below the horizontal black line = lead wrist extension (cupped). Above the horitzontal black line = lead wrist flexed (bowed).
BTW - I didn't digitize this player and there could always be a problem with poor digitization.
Post some of your lead wrist graphs there Tee! I know you have them and you could bring some precision to this issue on what truly is a "flipper."
What is a roller is a whole differnt topic.
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Post by cwdlaw223 on Aug 13, 2013 12:58:23 GMT -5
Jeffy -
Is the graph I posted that of a "flipper" according to your definition of a flipper? Seems awfully close to a "flipper" if the term flipper is tied to the lead wrist (which is where you draw the lines for a "flipper").
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Post by jeffy on Aug 13, 2013 12:59:29 GMT -5
Clay-
When you get a chance, I'd love to see Kevin's wrist graphs. Never seen a loop on one...
And, when do we get to see your swing??
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